fore did not concur with those who thought that government would have done wisely if they had made a selection of persons holding Exchequer-bills to the amount of three millions, and paid them off at par, leaving the other holders in their present situation. Still, however, he thought that government might have taken another and a better course. A large quantity of Exchequer-bills had been issued without a premium, and might, there fore, be taken at par. These bills were held by the Bank of England. He thought that many advantages would have resulted from reducing the unfunded debt in the hands of the Bank of England, and that such a proceeding would have been preferable to that which had been adopted. There would not have been a shadow of injustice in paying off at par the bills which the Bank of England had accepted without any premium upon them. His right hon. friends knew that he had long pressed the expediency and importance of the reduction of the amount of unfunded debt in the hands of the Bank, in order to leave their funds more at their own disposal. The hon, member for the city had said, that no inconvenience had arisen from leaving so large an amount of Exchequer-bills in the hands of the Bank, except forsooth at the period of the panic. Mr. Ward observed, that his remark was applied not to the Exchequer-bills in the hands of the Bank in particular, but to Exchequer-bills generally.

Mr. Huskisson begged his hon. friend's pardon, But, supposing the observation to be applied to the amount of Exchequerbills generally, it might be matter of speculation how far that amount, if it had not produced the panic, had materially aggravated it. Great caution ought to be used to guard against the recurrence of such an evil. It seemed to be forgotten that when, during the war, so large an amount of Exchequer-bills was in circulation, there was a suspension of cash payments, and the Bank was at liberty to limit its issues according to circumstances. If they were to restrain cash payments again, and lock up all the circulating medium, they might have double the amount of Exchequer-bills in perfect security; but they would again involve the country in all those enormous difficulties, the consequences of which the country now felt, and would feel for many years. He should certainly, therefore, have preferred seeing

as many of the Exchequer-bills in the hands of the Bank as the surplus would purchase, taken by government; and be would recommend to his right hon. friend, if he proposed at a future period further to diminish the unfunded debt, to do so by tender and open competition; which, he was persuaded, would be the means of obtaining the best terms. He would trouble the House with a single word on another topic; namely, the expediency of the purchase by the commissioners of the Sinking-fund in the three per cents instead of in the three and half. It was clear that by such purchases, a daily loss of interest to the public was occasioned. The debt ought to be looked at not as a capital, but as a great public annuity, which it became government to reduce as much as possible. If the quarterly sum of 360,000Z. had been laid out in the three and half per cents instead of in the three per cents, it would have reduced the permanent annuity an additional 6501. That sum, taking the interest at four per cent, was worth 16,000. This produced a loss of 64,0004, in the year. He repeated, that if he might advise his right hon. friends, it would be, with the surplus revenue, to reduce the unfunded debt in the hands of the Bank of England to a certain extent, and subsequently to apply it to the purchase of three and half per cents.

Mr. Baring considered that there could not be any dissent from the principles just asserted by the right hon. member for Liverpool. The question appeared to him less one of public faith than of publie interest, and he therefore agreed with those who contended, that the 3,000,000% Exchequer-bills which Mr. Canning had issued should not be funded above par. And for this simple reason, supposing there were no other-the present holders and the original purchasers were not the same persons, the bills having frequently changed hands, like all other government securities in the money market. thought it would be wise policy to take up the deficiency bills as well as the Exchequer-bills at par, and thus save the public the bonus at present paid on the one, and the 31. 10s. premium paid on the other. He did not consider that the effect on the currency would be such as the right hon. Master of the Mint had asserted, if the government had taken up the Exchequer-bills of which the Bank were the holders at par, instead of those

He also

floating in the money market. In his mind, it would occasion no difference in the amount, and thence in the value of the currency. With respect to purchasing in the three and half instead of the three per cents, he could not see the sacrifice of the public money which some hon. members declared to have arisen from the government's selecting the latter; because the effect of such selection would in a very short time, be to bring the two prices to a relative level. With respect to the impolicy of keeping up a large amount of unfunded debt, he agreed with those who entertained apprehensions therefrom. The subject was one of great importance, not only in its bearings on our finances, but on the internal and external political relations of the country. In this investigation no precedent should be taken from our financial proceedings in the late long and expensive war; when, owing to the Bank Restriction act, a system of ruinous extravagance was pursued by every successive chancellor of the Exchequer. He lamented, that since that most mischievous act had been repealed, the country had not been more enabled than it had been to apply itself to the reduction of the debt; but much of this was owing to the mock Sinking-fund with which the government had been for years pretending to reduce the debt with one hand, while they were actually adding to it with the other. He was glad that this pretended Sinking-fund system was about to be abandoned. In his opinion, if ever distress or difficulty in the extreme were to fall upon the nation, it would be chiefly attributable to the departure from the principle of Mr. Pitt's Sinking-fund.

The report was brought up, and the resolutions agreed to.

IRISH FISHERIES.] On the order of the day for the second reading of this bill, Sir A. Chichester said, that government ought, by every means in its power, to foster, protect, and extend these Fisheries. There were at present fifty-three thousand men employed in open boats in procuring a subsistence by fishing, and if the Fisheries were encouraged, there would be ample employment for the industry of the superabundant population of Ireland.

The bill was read a second time.

principle of the bill, and should give it his support, in the belief that the Scotch people were prepared to receive the change; for if they were not, it was useless, as in a country in which the laws and the habits of the people did not suit each, the Judges, as a matter of necessity, assumed the character of legislators. He wished the Scotch law to be assimilated as much as possible to the state of the law of England relating to real property. He objected to some of the machinery of this bill, but he approved of its principle; and he gave notice, that if it did not pass in the present session, he should, on its reintroduction in the next session, move for the insertion of a clause, giving the act a retrospective operation, because otherwise much of the property in the country might be, in the mean time, put into strict settlement, in order to evade the provisions of this act.

Mr. Fergusson said, he would give his assent to the bill, not with a view to change the law of the country, but for the purpose of bringing it back to the state in which the act of 1685 had originally placed it. The law had been, in fact, changed by the operation of circumstances, and somewhat altered by a statute passed in 1770; and he only wanted to bring it back to its original state.

The chairman reported progress, and asked leave to sit again.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Tuesday, May 12,

EAST INDIA TRADE.] The Marquis of Lansdowne said, he rose to present a petition from all the commercial and manufacturing interests of Manchester, the second town in the empire, on this important subject. He hoped he should receive for a few moments the indulgence of their lordships, while he stated the general object of the petition, and called their attention to that question of extreme and pressing importance to which the petition referred, and in the decision of which the petitioners, and all the other great manufacturing interests of this country, were so deeply involved. The petitioners prayed that their lordships would take into their early consideration the expediency of opening the Trade to the East Indies, and of imposing such limitations upon that trade as might be consistent with the comme çial and manufacturing

interests of this country; that they would refuse to renew the present charter of the East-India Company when its period for renewal arrived; and more especially that their lordships would seriously consider, whether the public interests of this empire would not be promoted by removing the limitations which at present restricted the trade between this country, the East Indies, and China. Though he did not mean to enter into the question, he must state, that their lordships could not take too early an opportunity of familiarising themselves with the vast and important subject on which they must, at some time or other, enter. They ought not to defer taking into their serious consideration, the great question on which they must be called on, in the course of a few years, to pronounce a definite opinion. Their lordships were frequently called on to form their opinions on commercial subjects, and on subjects essential to the welfare of the country, but it could not often happenit might perhaps never again happenthat they should be called on to settle a question involving every principle of commercial law, and every principle that could lend security and prosperity to the empire. He had not, indeed, formed himself any judgment on the subject, and did not mean to do so; being withheld from doing it by the great, not to say insuperable difficulties connected with it. After saying that he did not mean to call on the noble duke, or any of the noble lords opposite, to make any declaration of what opinion they entertained, and he would not only not call on them, but he hoped they would not form, and certainly would not declare, any rash opinion. Not only did he not think himself justified in calling on them for an opinion, but, he confessed, whatever might be the bias of his mind, the sense he entertained of the difficulties of the question were so great, that it was quite sufficient to prevent him from forming and declaring any opinion, until he had had an opportunity of examining all that testimony and that documentary evidence which had been collected within the last few years, and which must be closely examined before their lordships could form a satisfactory judgment on the subject. He trusted that their lordships and his majesty's ministers would also turn their minds to a full consideration of this subject, in order to enable them to decide properly respecting

a question which involved not alone the prosperity of the commerce and manufactures of England, and which not only immediately involved every principle of our government and constitution at home, but which also involved every consideration of duty and humanity; for they must feel that in deciding on this question they would be determining the fate of between sixty and eighty millions of people, whose interests by a singular dispensation of Providence, had become inseparably connected with our own, and whose future career in civilization and prosperity would materially depend upon the wisdom of the decision which their lordships should then come to. Looking, therefore, at the difficulty and vast importance of this question he should not wish to call for any decided opinion respecting it from the noble duke and the noble lord opposite; but he should wish to know from the noble duke, what was the opinion of his majesty's government as to the best course of conducting the preliminary inquiry, previous to the period when the House would be called upon to decide this question. He was desirous to know whether or not it was the intention of government to propose the appointment of a committee of their lordships to investigate all the matters connected with the question, with a view to obtain for their lordships such evidence and information as might direct their judg ments in pronouncing a final decision upon it. He would take that opportunity of stating, that whatever might be the course which government had determined to pursue on this subject, he would not allow this session to close without moving for documents on the subject; as a great deal of time would necessarily elapse before they could be procured, and as their lordships would be anxious to have such documents laid before them by the next session, when this question would come under their consideration. It was absolutely necessary, in a case of such difficulty and importance, that they should obtain all the information which they could possibly procure, and that every document at all connected with it should be placed before them for their guidance and instruetion. At present, without offering ah opinion of his own upon the subject, he felt it his duty to call their lordships attention to this petition, which expressed a most decided opinion as to the impolicy of continuing the existing restrictions upon