He

two modes of education for the public service, than they could do at the termination of the shorter period. No man was more anxious for the good of the public service than he was; and as he thought the service would be greatly benefited by this alteration, he cordially approved of it. He could not consider, without feelings of regret, the number of meritorious officers in India, who were absolutely precluded, under the existing state of things, from providing for their children under the Company. Some of them had no friends in the direction; others could not support the expense which attended a course of education at Haileybury; and there were many who could afford the expense that did not like to send their children to that place. The scenes which had occurred at that seminary, involving the ruin of character and the loss of appointment, exclusive of the pecuniary sacrifice, had operated very much in preventing parents from sending their children to the college. merely threw out these observations that the court might see the propriety of extending the trial to four or five years: if they did so, the result he thought would be, that the Court of Directors would free themselves from those trammels which obliged them at present to go to Parliament, on the subject of sending out their own servants. He had always considered it to be a very bad thing for the Company to suffer themselves to be fettered in sending out their officers; and now, as they had it in their power to remedy that defect, it would be attended with excellent consequences if they did not let the opportunity pass idly by. There was one point, which related to the second part of this bill, that was not perhaps known to the court,—namely, that since the year 1821, the Court of Directors and the Board of Control had been acting illegally-they had been granting allowances which were not permitted by law. He thought they acted wisely, under the circumstances, in granting those allowances; and he, for one, willingly concurred in the indemnity which the bill contained, in consequence of this breach of the law. Whatever had been paid as allowances, under the authority of the Court of Directors and the Board of Control, ought to be admitted. He doubted, however, whether some exceptions might not be made, with respect to the civil service; because none of them ever received hopes of such allowances being made: therefore, he felt a doubt of the propriety of going so far back. With respect to the military service, he thought it perfectly right. At the same time, he was of opinion, that the court ought to know what money was paid, on account of the military service, since 1821, in contravention of the existing law: and, if the

present law were to extend to civilians, and they were to go back from the present time to 1821, he should like to know what the probable amount of those allowances would be. If they went back so far, he saw some cases which, if brought forward, would place the Company in rather an awkward situation. The hon. gentle man (Mr. Poynder) had alluded to the great majority by which an alteration in the college system had been opposed; and he could not sit down without bearing his testimony to the consistent perseverance with which the hon. proprietor and his friends had supported that system. He did not wonder at the surprise of the hon. proprietor, when he found his friends, those whom he had supported through thick and thin, turning round suddenly, and doing the very thing which he and they had so strenuously opposed. (Hear!) The hon. proprietor, he thought, should look upon the measure as an act forced on the executive by the exigency of the case, and therefore he ought to approve highly of it, as he (Mr. Hume) most unquestionably did.

The

Mr. Astell said, it had not been his intention to make any remarks on the present occasion; but it was impossible for him, after what had fallen from the hon. proprietor, to remain silent. bill now before the court had two objects in view; on the latter, which related to the payment of allowances to the representatives of deceased civil and military officers, he did not think it necessary to offer any observations, as there appeared little or no difference of opinion. But, with respect to the first part of the bill, which had reference to Haileybury College, feeling as he did that its provision was not, as the hon, proprietor wished it to be understood, a condemnation of the college, he must declare his entire dissent from such declaration, and he thought three years was a period quite sufficient for the expedient which was required; he would not therefore consent that it should be extended to five years. The great extention of the Company's territories, and the improved mode of administering their affairs in the East, which now prevailed, called for a greater number of civil servants than had hitherto been required; and the Court of Directors, in the discharge of their duty, felt it necessary to apprize the Board of Commissioners for the Affairs of India of this circumstance. This was done by the hon. Chairman's letter of the 19th of August last, in which three plans were pointed out which might be taken to remedy the inconvenience complained of,-namely, an enlargement of the college, an abridgment of the period during which the young men were required to remain there, which he would have preferred, or by rendering

it unnecessary, for a limited term, that they should receive their education there at all. This being the true state of the case, he could not permit it to be said, or insinuated, that the Court of Directors viewed the college as an inefficient establishment. (Hear!) The hon. proprietor had observed, that the letter of the 19th of August declared the inefficiency of the college. That was not the fact. The letter was not written on account of the inefficiency of the college, but, on the contrary, arose out of a pressing state of necessity; and certainly nothing had ever been considered by the Court of Directors of greater importance, than the necessity of providing efficient servants for the Company; and he would ask any unprejudiced man, whether the college had not sent forth servants of that description? (Hear!) He knew it had been the fashion with the hon. proprietor, and other gentlemen, to decry this establishment; but he would maintain, that, during the twenty years which had passed since its formation, the Company had been benefited by the exertions of most able, efficient, and, he would say, celebrated servants; (hear!) and those servants had received their education at this unjustly-abused college. (Hear!) He therefore, for one, could never sit quiet, and hear such observations as those which had fallen from the hon. gentleman. The present bill did not involve any question connected with the overturning of this college. This general court, after three days' discussion on that subject, had remained impressed with the great utility of the institution, and they had expressed that sentiment by an immense majority. He had taken part in that discussion, and the view he had then taken of the subject he still retained-he was still impressed with a strong feeling of the benefits which the college had produced to the Company. (Hear!) The present measure did not go to alter the institution; but was intended, under special circumstances, to render the supply of civil servants sufficiently numerous to meet the exigency of the moment, and thus to make the general system more perfect. (Hear!)

Mr. Weeding heartily concurred in the proposition before the court. The statement of the hon. Chairman, with the letter which had been read from the Board of Control, clearly pointed out the necessity for having the law on this subject suspended. He, however, was desirous that the measure should be permanent, not temporary. That was his opinion; and that opinion, he thought, comprized the best wishes for the interests of the Company. He agreed with those who asserted that the college had done much good; but he felt that the restraint imposed by the compulsory clause, was the means of prevent

ing many very clever men from going out to India. (Hear, hear !) That restraint or restriction was inimical to the best interests of the Company-because it hindered them from procuring, from every part of the United Kingdom, a combination of brilliant talents and of useful and solid qualities, which the young men were not capable of acquiring from a two years' standing at Haileybury. (Hear!) It was on this ground, that the college had not done all the good which it might have done, that he opposed this restraint. He did not mean or wish to oppose the college itself as a seat of learning; he only viewed it as an establishment that demanded modification. He confessed he derived a cheering assurance from the let ter which had been read by order of the hon. Chairman. It appeared from it, that three propositions for altering the system were thrown out:-namely, by an enlargement of the college-by an abridgment of the term of residence, or, by a suspension of the law, as it now existed, leaving it to the directors to point out such testimonials as they might deem satisfactory, and to frame such rules and regulations as seemed best calculated to answer the purpose in view. They had adopted the third proposition; and he congratulated the court on the selection. It was the part of wisdom; because, by doing so, they had, he thought, removed one great impediment to obtaining the best possible abilities for the service of the Company; they had settled, he hoped, this compulsory clause in the act of Parliament for ever. (Hear!) The Court of Directors had thereby declared, that the suspension of the law was the best of the three propositions brought before them. He thought so too; and, therefore, he wished that suspension to be perpetual. (Hear!)

Dr. Gilchrist. An hon. proprietor (Mr. Poynder) having mentioned the large majority with which he voted on a former oc casion, he (Dr. Gilchrist) might be permitted to remind him, that the major in numbers was frequently the minor in logic; and it was not always the decision of the largest body that was indisputably just. Many gantlemen, he knew, were in favour of great public institutions for the instruction of youth; but he certainly thought that private instruction did much more good. Not long since, no less a person than Sir Joseph York got up and stated, that the great public institutions of this country taught nothing but swindling and deceit. (A laugh) He did not blindly follow that individual's opinion-but he spoke from experience-and he was not a man that would tell an untruth. He had had a good deal to do with students who had been at those institutions. and he would tell the court the result. He found they had a great deal of ignorance of every

thing connected with the ordinary language of India, and with the manners and customs of its inhabitants; and certainly he never met a number of young men so filled with conceit. Their education had been begun at the wrong end. To be learned in the laws of the Sanscrit language might be very useful when a copperplate was dug up, from which it might be ascertained that a certain rajah had died 500 or 1,000 years ago, and left to the Brahmins a particular portion of land, in consequence of their haying prevailed with a dozen of his wives to burn on his funeral pile. This was very good in a literary point of view- but let him have, in preference, useful practical knowledge; give him the man who could address the natives in their own language. Within his own experience he had seen many of those ill-educated young men, who could not speak to the cavalry corps like an officer or a gentleman. He might be allowed to observe, that the Indian cavalry corps were on a level with the Roman equitesthey were all gentlemen, and had the manners of gentlemen; yet the worst and most ignorant young men were usually placed in command over them. Now, if they did not send out muskets, artillery, or sabres until they were properly stamped, why did they not, on the same principle, take care that no officers were sent out unless they also bore the stamp of merit. They would not send out mere passive instruments of war unless they were regularly tried and stamped; but they took no such precaution with respect to the active power that was to direct the use of those instruments. (Hear!) Instead of that, they might send out the greatest blunderbuss in the world-(A laugh. he was tried in India, found inefficient, and sent home. Now would it not be better to try him here in the first instance? (Hear!) Gentlemen talked of putting fetters on the patronage of the Court of Directors. - Far be it from him to place any fetters on their patronage, except the fetters of a fair examination, which would be serviceable to the young men and beneficial to the Company. The fact was, that those who now went out with the greatest quantity of ignorance, got the highest situations--because they went out first. He should like them to be sent to him for a few months

(a laugh)-that they might imbibe a little useful knowledge. (A laugh). An hon. friend of his was mistaken the other day, in thinking that he (Dr. Gilchrist) wanted a contract of this kind. He desired no such thing-but he was certainly anxious to see the education of these young men a little more attended to. The hon. proprietor then complained that, on a former day, when he was sitting in that corner (pointing to a seat usually occupied by Mr. S. Dixon) that hon. gent. had ex

pressed his astonishment at the intrusion of a stranger, who had usurped the place he had been accustomed to sit in for many years. (Laughter.) From that moment he determined to resign that seat. (Laughter.) He would not sit in that seat again under any circumstances; it was contaminated -it was polluted. (Much laughter.) The hon. proprietor then proceeded to observe, that there was a provision in this bill connected with the interests of officers in the army. He was very happy to see it; and he must say, that it gave him great pleasure to find that the Court of Directors and the government were inclined to view their situation with kindness; for he believed it to be a fact, that many officers who had lost their bealth in the service, and had changed the climate to recover it, had not the means of going back. it not been for the assistance granted by agency houses (and one of those houses had advanced money to the amount of £70,000), many officers would not have been able to return to that service, in which they had lost their health. Nothing had come before the Court, since he had the honour of being a member of it, that gave him such unmixed satisfaction as this bill. Give to the people of the United Kingdom an open field and fair play, and if they did not beat the college hollow, he would forfeit his existence. (Hear!)

Had

Mr. S. Dixon.-" The hon. member has, I think, gone a little out of his way to attack me, when he states that I complained of his sitting in this seat. I never said that, or any thing like it. I have no more claim to this seat than any other proprietor in the court. I wish, as the hon. proprietor talks a great deal about the civil service, that he would be good enough to study the use of civil language." (A laugh.)

men

Mr. Ellis declared his approval of the proposed measure. He thought a very considerable disadvantage arose from separating those persons, who were destined to administer the affairs of the Company in India, from every other class of society. In his view of the subject, it was very important that they should carry out with them the feelings and opinions of English(hear!--since their character would ultimately be judged at the tribunal of public sentiment and feeling. (Hear!) When it was considered that the patronage chiefly fell amongst those whose relatives had been in India, there was a chance, if they were educated at an institution which admitted none but those who were intended for India, that they would acquire exclusive opinions and prejudices, and become almost a caste. (Hear!) He should say nothing, on this occasion, relative to the misfortunes which had attended the Haileybury institution. He did not mean to say that it was a place

where

where more disturbances had occurred, or where more topics of contention existed, than elsewhere. Neither would he assert that the young men who were placed there conducted themselves worse than those who went to other institutions; but, most unquestionably, if one were to judge from what had occurred at that college, he would be led to form a very indifferent opinion of it.

He admitted that it was beneficial to commence the acquirement of the Oriental languages in England; but he was quite sure, that a young man, in India, would do more in one month to›wards acquiring a knowledge of the language, for the practical purposes of life, than he could achieve in twenty months in this country. While he was in Calcutta, he had an opportunity of observing the advantages that were derived from the .College of Fort William; and he was quite certain, that if the plan of the Marquis Wellesley had been followed up, it would have answered every purpose of instruction, both with respect to European and Oriental literature. (Hear!)

The hon. Hugh Lindsay begged leave to say, that he most highly approved of this measure; not because he disapproved of the college, but because the extreme exigency of the moment required it. He thought that, in the course of the three years to which this measure was to be confined, experience would testify that the college afforded a better opportunity for the acquirement of that knowledge which was requisite for the young men, than any other institution in this country; and, entertaining that opinion strongly, he hoped the experiment would not be extended beyond three years.

Mr. Pattison. That the college had produced most successful results, every gentleman who had been in India must allow. Now, at a moment when gentle men for the civil service were wanted to a very great extent, and an addition was therefore made to the means of education, by admitting pro tanto young men to study -in other quarters, he thought it was very hard to take such an opportunity to run down the college. The letter to the President of the Board of Control pointed out, not, as the hon. proprietor had said, that the college was inefficient, but that it was insufficient. (Hear!) That was the word which ought to be dwelt on; he must, therefore, request gentlemen to look to that which was the real state of the subject; and, until a fair trial were given, to discover whether the one or the other system of education was the better, to abstain from casting reflections on the college. (Hear!) It was very certain, that a suggestion of opening Oxford and Cambridge to the young men intended for the civil service had been strongly supported in the adjoining room, soon Asiatic Journ. VOL. XXI. No. 124.

after the establishment of the college, but the prejudice at that time was too strong in favour of that institution, and the proposition was not successful. But now, when it was merely declared that the structure could not contain a sufficient number of students-that the quantity of bricks and mortar of which it consisted, and the space which it covered, could not accommodate so many young men as the exigency of the service required--he hoped the general merits of the questiou would not be prejudged, and the college set down as good for nothing, until, by comparison, they learned which of the two plans was the most productive of good. (Hear!) He agreed with the hon. proprietor, that a more extended period would give a greater range to the experiment; because the effect of the change must be proved in India; and a knowledge of it could not well come home to this country, in the time specified, so as to enable them to form a decided opinion. (Hear!) Still, however, the effect of the present measure will be to try the experiment to a certain extent; and as in all other cases, individuals, if they cannot procure the whole of what they wish, must be glad to take what they can get. This bill was all the directors had to offer to the notice of the proprietors; but, if the result of this measure turned out to be so beneficial as the hon. proprietor anticipated, it would be consistent with his views to call for its farther extension. The hon. proprietor would no doubt be in his place, ready to watch over the progress of the measure, and to point out the good effects which would arise from carrying it on farther, if it were necessary. He deprecated argument on one side or the other of the main question, at the present moment, as uncalled for.

Mr. S. Dixon." In the bill, the term of three years is mentioned as a fit and proper time to prove the efficacy of this plan. I and others, however, think that five years will be a better period than three; and, therefore, I hope the court will not lose sight of that point.'

Colonel Baillie, in expressing his consent to the measure proposed by this bill, observed that he did not consider it by any means as an experiment to ascertain whether or not the Company could do better without the college, but merely as an erpedient to supply the deficiency of the college on its present limited scale, with a reference to the exigencies of the service. The institution of the college, in his (Col. Baillie's) opinion, had fully answered the purposes for which it was originally intended; and, if he could contemplate the total and permanent repeal of the provision which they were about to suspend, he should never have consented to the measure. He believed that, up to this time, 4 A

the

the college had afforded a sufficient supply of young men, better qualified for the discharge of the duties of the civil service in India, than we could boast of in former times; though, on the other hand, he was far from admitting that the duties of the service, on the comparatively limited scale to which they were formerly confined, had not been ably and efficiently performed by the civil servants of the Company but the gradual extension of our empire, and the consequent increase of business in the civil departments of the service, demanded an additional supply, which must now be furnished on emergency by the best means in our power. If the college, on its present establishment, were sufficient to furnish that supply, he, for one, would resist an attempt to make any change in the system; but, satisfied as he was that the present scale of this institution was inadequate to meet the increased demand for civil servants in India, he was content to agree to the suspension, for the limited period proposed, of that provision of the statute which required the residence of four terms at the college as a condition of the appointment of writers. Perhaps, indeed, he might see cause at a future time to consent to a permanent limitation of the residence to a shorter period than the present-one or two sessions instead of four; but at present he should only repeat that he considered the bill as an expedient to supply an immediate want, not as an experiment to supersede the system of education at the college, and that, from this consideration alone, he was induced to consent to the measure.

Mr. Trant said, after what had fallen from the hon. director who had just spoken, he should think himself but ill discharging his duty, as a person who had passed through the civil service of the Company, and who had not been inattentive to what had been done and was doing in that service since he left it, if he did not, in his place, declare that all the 'efforts which had been made before and since the institution of the college, had been insufficient to provide a proper supply of young men for the civil service of the different presidencies. (Hear!) This he knew might be a very unpleasant declaration to same gentlemen--but such was the fact. (Hear!) He knew that he was not singular in this opinion many who had been employed in the civil service were of the same opinion. The situation of India was now very different from that in which he left it. This arose from various causes-and one of these was the great improvement in the state of the natives themselves. This circumstance required the possession of higher qualities in the young men who were sent out, than were generally to be found amongst them. Perhaps he

:

Dis

His

ought to apologize for what he had said; but it was a subject so very important and so much neglected, that he thought it should be mentioned as frequently as pos sible, both in that court and in another place. He could not agree in all that had been said relative to the great improvement in the civil service, since the institution of Haileybury college. It happened to him to put a very particular question on this point to an intimate friend of his, who was educated at that college, and was one of the most distinguished men that ever left it. cussing the state of the civil service in Bengal, in the higher departments, it appeared that it was not so efficient as he and his friend could have wished it; and he (Mr. Trant) expressed a hope that some of the young servants would be prepared to fill the situations in a better manner. friend's answer was-" I am very sorry that nothing leads me to hope that those young men will be more useful than their predecessors. I am afraid that, in those who are to come, a much greater deficiency will be found than there is even in those who are there now." (Hear!) Feeling as he did the deepest interest in the welfare of the Company-feeling in his heart and conscience that they had not yet adopted those means that were essentially necessary to secure a full supply of that class of persons to whom the civil affairs of the Company could with safety be trusted-be implored them to adopt some course different from that which they had heretofore pursued. When it was remembered that there was no competition that there were just as many candidates as places-it was not surprising that mediocrity should be much more frequently met with than real ability. When such was the state of circumstances, surely those in whose hands the government of India was placed, ought to devise some more efficient means for the purpose of supplying the civil service with able men, than they had hitherto followed. He thought that the bill now under consideration would, in some degree, afford an opportunity for the improvement of the civil service; because it would probably bring into competition young men educated at different places at the universities and great public schools; and they all knew that there was nothing like competition in

these cases.

This bill, they knew, had not passed the House of Commons; and, as he had the honour of a seat there, he might postpone any thing, in the shape of improvement, which occurred to his mind, until the measure was before the House. He might, however, throw it out as a hint here, that, in his view of the subject, the age at which the young men were appointed to service in India, might be beneficially extended from twenty-three to twenty four

or